And, in turn, itd be a major stepping stone to landing theCaptain America 2directors chair.
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Joe: Good call, good call.
Not onlyDie Hard 4.
Enemy Of State too.
Joe: Yes, yes.
We didnt seeDie Hard 5.
What happens in that?
Is it any good?
Well its terrifyingly shit really.
Im a Die Hard 4 forgiver, but the fifth one is a quite appalling action film.
You, with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, have gone the other way a bit?
Joe: That is fair to say.
Because listen, were comic book fans.
I started collecting when I was 10.
And were pop culture junkies.
I used to spend my Saturdays watching Hammer double features andGodzillamovies.
We grew up on genre films.
We studiedThe French Connectioncar chase… that was our film school.
So yeah, were obsessed with films and pop culture.
And I had a strong opinion on Captain America as a kid when I was collecting the comic books.
One of the first books I ever got my hands on was a Captain America/Falcon team-up.
I always found Cap very generalistic, to his detriment.
I thought he was a superficial boy scout.
He was a propaganda character.
But what Brubaker did was so brilliant.
He completely deconstructed the mythology, and made him very relevant.
We were very fortunate to have that source material.
Also, when I started collecting in the 80s, Frank Miller releasedThe Dark Knightand blew my mind.
Finally, he was taking silver age and gold age characters and making them post-modern.
Putting them in a hyper-reality that I could appreciate.
So that was our approach with this film.
We took everything we love, and put it into a film.
So, day one then.
This is how I like to think it pans out.
Kevin Feige and Joss Whedon give you a Powerpoint presentation on the current state of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
They tell you where its going, where your film needs to start to stop.
Then, in the next room, theres Joe Johnston, and he gives you extensive handover notes.
Robert Redford might come along, looking dryer than last time we saw him, and shake your hands.
But how did it really go?
Anthony: [Laughs] It wasnt literally like that, but figuratively yes!
First of all, that was thrilling, having not lobbied for the job.
Making them work in interesting ways.
That was so exciting.
I remember seeing that firstIron Manmovie…
The Favreau moment…
Anthony: Yeah!
I saw that movie.
It was very exciting what they were doing.
Anyway, we got a level of interest, we went in for a meeting.
We went through about a two and a half month process, over four meetings.
We were basically auditioning for the job.
We fell in love with the job from the get-go.
We really wanted it.
And it was a wonderful process for us to go through.
And we were all on the same page with Marvel.
They know the vitality of the franchise is dependant on new people coming in with ideas.
And once they saw how connected we were to the material, they became very supportive.
Joe: We totally get what you mean there.
From the outside looking in, Marvel does seem to let you make your movie.
Joe: Its interesting.
Marvel is a very streamlined studio.
Basically, its Kevin.
Hes very thoughtful, and he doesnt like to put things out there if its a half baked idea.
But Marvel is a unique place.
Ive got to be honest, he never felt invasive in the process.
So were not afraid of transparency, but were also very vocal and extremely opinionated about what we want.
We do it in a polite way, and best idea wins.
Thats where the hand may come in: when creatively youre not linked up when crunch time hits!
Can we talk about you two working together then.
No, I wouldnt kill him.
Anthony: That is not an uncommon point of view.
So: youve got a family dynamic in your working relationship already, but also theres co-directing.
But how does it work with you two?
Do you have arm wrestling competitions or something?
Anthony: Heres the thing.
Its definitely an interesting, unique relationship.
I think every directing team works differently in the same manner that every director works differently.
Everybody has a different personality and a different way of working, and that somehow evolves in the process.
For us, we dont have formal divisions.
Theres a very easy process between ourselves.
We have a non-stop dialogue running constantly.
We work through things, and we attempt to make it very easy for others to work with us.
If you get an answer from one of us, its the same answer from both of us.
We really put it upon ourselves to handle any discrepancies between ourselves.
As far as handling disagreements though, we have a process where the best idea wins.
Usually we arrive at one point or view or the other.
Sometimes well try it both ways but not often.
You know this is a hugely disappointing answer dont you?
Anthony: [Laughs] I know!
I want the two of you playing paintball.
I want some conflict that has to be resolved in a violent way.
Anthony: Heres where we argue: if we have enough time, theres never a problem.
Sometimes, you have to make a decision very fast, and sometimes youre not sure about it.
Sometimes, I notice, we argue when we dont have the right answer yet.
Thats when we argue the most.
When neither of us has the idea thats working, then we tend to really lock up.
Our process though is that were always moving forward.
Its the only way to end up with the movie at the end of the day.
So I think we have this natural tendency to keep moving.
Just for the record, I would still punch my brother in the face.
Theres a sense of some authorship here.
There are lots of geeky bits in there too, which Im guessing is down to you two.
I caught WarGames, The Running Man…
Joe: Were relentless when it comes to Easter Eggs!
Was it RoboCop in there too?
Sat in a chair having a dream?
Was that a deliberate touch?
Have you seen the remake?
Joe: I havent.
In my view at least, its better than you may be expecting.
It very much has ideas of its own.
So what others are in there?
What should people look out for?
Joe: The huge influences on us?
Obviously for the car chase itsThe French Connection,To Live And Die In L.A.Roninwas a big influence.
The sequence on the freeway, the bank heist fromHeat.
Right down to the mask!
De Palma was a really big influence.
The elevator sequence, and[redacted for spoiler reasons].
Weirdly enough,The Raidwas a big influence.
Have you seen the new one of those?
Joe: No, not yet.
If youre going to show a brick hitting someone, show the damage it actually does.
It would be fair to say that The Raid 2 follows that manifesto!
Not to the level of The Raid 2, but you seem keen to show the real damage?
Anthony: Youre going to get hurt!
Thats what Marvels always done.
Go and watch Green Lantern if you want to see all the realism sucked out.
Anthony: So we wanted a verite quality.
Cap is a very human character.
The other thing is, what Ill bring up as a big influence, isRocky.
Cap has a very simple arc.
Hes a very empathetic character, like Rocky.
Rocky has no arc in the movie, right.
Rockys job was just to persevere in this film.
Anthony: Thats it.
Joe: And thats why we put theRockyjoke in there.
We thought if hes Rocky, we need to beat the shit out of him.
And it was by putting him through a lot.
Joe: Great question, and its something we spent a lot of time thinking about.
How dark can we go?
And I always think ofThe Empire Strikes Back.
I loveThe Empire Strikes Back.
I went to see it at 11am and I left at 11pm watching it back to back.
And I loved that it treated me like an adult.
I loved that it was operatic.
And that it was something I couldnt get out of my head after Id seen it.
My feeling is that its important that you show kids reality.
I think, as youd said, that there is a cause and effect in this movie.
If you get hit, you get hurt.
If you get shot, you might not get up.
There are bad things in the movie, and bad things kill people.
So we wanted to be reflective of that.
And hopefully, thats what weve managed to do.
Finally, your favourite Jason Statham movie?
Joe: I think wed go forThe Transporter.
Joe and Anthony Russo, thank you very much!
Read our review ofCaptain America: The Winter Soldierhere.
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