Jon Ronson talks to us about writing Okja, writing films, his upcoming projects and Jason Statham…
The occasion this time was the release of the filmOkja, that hes co-written.
Well, that seemed like a good place to start this interview… You know what, Ive got a memory of this.
But my memorys so shit, youre going to have to remind me!
You touched on it in the early passages ofThe Psychopath Test.
It was not a fun experience for us or for Jon].
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So my question to you: whats your next trick?!
[Laughs] Ive got nothing!
I try and keep away from particularly problematic people these days!
Life is too short!
Ive been reading a lot about your own writing approach, and your Raymond Carver influences.
When you approach screenwriting, how do you translate that?
Film writing is a lot more of an ego-less endeavour!
Im really interested in this stuff.
He sent me this draft that was already brilliant.
So I was wondering what do I do?
Do I try and overwhelm his points with mine?
No, that would be stupid.
Stupid because his stuff was already so brilliant.
What I wanted to do was try and give him my best version of his voice.
Right from the beginning, its ego-less.
Film is like a casserole.
Everybody is thrown into a pot, and were all in it together.
He was very much the leader, always knew exactly what he wanted.
Its totally Bongs film.
But he wasnt like an autocrat.
He was always open to other peoples ideas.
Bong as director is incredibly precise.
I saw him move an actors arm up an inch for a shot.
But as a film writer, I think you have to relinquish that need for precision and control.
You just dont get it with films, which is fine.
I get that with every other thing that I do.
With film, its a completely different thing.
Bongs precision is well known.
But then also, he approached you.
I cant believe that a filmmaker that precise picks you to be an echo chamber for his ideas.
Theres a reason that hes picked you precisely?
The specific reason was that he really likedFrank!
And then he readThe Psychopath Testas well!
Tilda [Swinton] was really involved in how this film feels.
I had my input into that, the director of photography did.
The man who designed the animal had a huge influence on the film.
It was a very happy balance.
He gets to where he wants on peoples shoulders, rather than their backs?
I think there were some of his ideas in the film that were utterly brilliant, too.
I was thinking about them this morning.
I was so lucky to be working with a man whos that brilliant.
I dont think films are always that happy an experience, but this one was.
The reaction here has been a lot more positive already.
I didnt see any unhappiness.
You know how Twitter works.
Do you want to make up a story of a punch-up or something?
[Laughs] I was only on set for four or five days.
Everybody seemed to be having a good time.
I have massive respect for Tilda, for Bong, for everyone I worked with on it.
Tilda gave me notes too that helped influence the script.
You were having Skype chats with her, I read!
And I had various meetings, and sent me emails that were really, really helpful.
I always sense of you a love of film.
If Im reading this story right, Netflix gave the film a sizeable budget $50m-ish…
They also coupled that with giving creative control for Bong.
The trade off being, though, that most people will watchOkjaon a mobile phone or an iPad.
Whats your view on that?
When was the last time… what you have to remember withOkjais that its a big budget film.
Theres CGI, theres crowd scenes, things get destroyed.
When was the last time that studios gave idiosyncratic people like Bong total big budget control?
There are a few exceptions, like Harvey Weinstein with Quentin Tarantino.
For people of our age, those were the best movies of our lifetime.
Netflix and Amazon are recreating that kind of golden age of cinema.
OkjaI dont think would have been made if Netflix hadnt made it.
Because it simply wouldnt have existed otherwise.
The closest example I can get to it wasColossal.
A film that had to be crowdfunded effectively to even get a small budget together in the first place.
Theres a few lucky people.
With small budget films its an easier deal.
I showed my children the animated version ofAnimal Farmthe other week.
The majority of your writing is fact-based.
Something that resonates about the period in which the piece in question was made?
I thinkOkjais a film that does that, but I think an awful lot of that came from Bong.
It felt like it was always there anyway.
Youre juggling a whole bunch of things when you write a screenplay.
Part of the fun of it is to juggle all of these things and move forward.
It sounds like a great script.
I think Ive got a copy of it at home somewhere.
It was very thin.
He did it on small paper, and I think its hidden between a couple of books!
Its maddening, because it was really good.
Is there anything you’re able to do with that?
Does it just die now as theyve not made the film?
Actually, the rights reverted back to me.
I own the rights again now.
Is that my exclusive then?
That youre going off to make the film tomorrow?
Thats kind of you to say.
[Laughs] I wish.
How aboutThe Psychopath Test?
Is that still out there?
To my knowledge thats still going.
Kristin Gore is writing the script, with Scarlett Johansson attached.
To the best of my knowledge, thats exactly where it still is.
I gather the end point is near.
[Laughs] Its all finished.
I made my last creative decision on it about four or five days ago.
There was a little bit of music that was a little too loud.
Nothing to do with the storytelling at this point.
Its all finished, they just wanted a good launch!
In fact, theyre even thinking about season two ofThe Butterfly Effectnow!
None of us are going to live long enough to see that, surely?!
[Laughs] Thats the problem with me.
They might cut out ten minutes or so.
But I not only not do that, I dont really want to do that.
If I interview somebody for an hour, Im looking for four amazing minutes.
Youve called it sculpting when describing it before.
It lasts longer, and hopefully people enjoy it more.
But thats just the way I like to do stuff.
Its why I take so long.
Ive got to say I love it.
Im very happy with it and proud of it.
I think it equals any of my books, and I think its the best audio Ive ever done.
If I can end with my fanboy question.
I thoughtSo Youve Been Publicly Shamedwas an incredible piece of work.
Its been a couple of years since the books been published.
I think it goes through waves.
I actually think these days things are a little better.
You do have these rages, but I think theyre imbued with a greater knowledge of what these means.
The book, Monica Lewinskys TED talk, Glenn Greenwald.
One last question, then.
Whats your favourite Jason Statham film?
I think Ive only ever seen one Jason Statham film.
It was a good one?
It was the one where he made fun of himself.
Its my favourite Jason Statham film and the only Jason Statham film Ive ever seen!
Jon Ronson, thank you very much!
Okjais on Netflix now.The Butterfly Effectis released next month.
