In Michele, the central character played by Isabelle Huppert inElle, Verhoeven might have found his fictional muse.

Ad content continues below

I loved the way that you found so much tension and humour in unexpected places.

I wondered whether this was what attracted you to adapt the book in the first place.

Yeah, I think so.

The mother, the son everything has a certain tension.

Who is this guy?

But then, whats she going to do?

Thats the plot, isnt it?

This woman, her relationships with her family, her ex-husband, her daughter-in-law, etcetera, etcetera.

About 60 or 65 percent of the novel was about that.

And Micheles an absolutely fascinating.

They are, yes especially the men.

All the women are kind of tough.

The daughter-in-law isnt an easy one!

[Chuckles] And even her mother is kind of difficult.

You cannot forget the talent of Isabelle Huppert, you know?

Its her talent and her mystery that is always in her eyes you cant read her completely.

There are always hidden things there.

Its that element that Isabelle brought to the movie, and its important to making the movie work.

Its an incredible performance.

Its difficult to describe, this superior talent, as I would call it.

That elevated the movie from the material I had in my hands when I read the novel.

If youre lucky, shooting the movie brings things that were not very clear to you before you started.

Perhaps you felt them, but you hadnt made them conscious.

Its difficult to describe, really, what happens in a case like that.

What we do on the set is an enormous addition to what was on paper.

In this film, Michele has no shame at all.

Yeah, she steps over that, I think!

This character has her own rules.

She relies on herself and nobody else, in fact.

Even if shes raped, she refuses compassion, isnt it?

But she cuts it off, right?

She doesnt want to hear it, even.

She says, Lets order [dinner].

She doesnt want to be seen and doesnt see herself as a victim.

She sees it as something that happened to her, and has to be overcome.

Not in the next day or the next hour its clear right at the beginning of the movie.

She cleans up, makes a bath and order sushi.

So she refuses to feel like a victim.

Its an interesting character, I think one that might not exist in reality, you know?

[Laughs]

But in the movie, its convincing.

That she is that way.

But there arent many people who can achieve that in life.

This is me all talking in retrospect!

That became clear slowly through the creative process, I think.

As I said, the presence of Isabelle Huppert brought the movie to the level that it is now.

I mean, all the actors were good and the DP, and the music and everything.

I remember reading that you compared makingEllewithRoboCop, in the sense that it was a leap into the unknown.

And it was a frightening one.

Id certainly never done a science fiction movie in Holland.

So that was certainly a leap into the unknown.

You leave them behind.

You leave them behind.

Locations: you dont know them.

Because suddenly youre activated every cell in your body seems to be alive.

Its like a, lets say, rejuvenation process to do it.

I think thats what I meant when I said doingRoboCopwas similar to doingElle.

WithBlack Book,at least I went back to Holland, and back to people that I knew.

And again, that step was frightening, because it was in another language the third one.

First working in Dutch, then in English, then working in French.

The headaches were sparked by fear!

That really wasnt very pleasant.

But doing it made me, probably, much more creative, you know?

You step into the unknown.

I feel thats always creative.

Its existential, isnt it, to step into something you dont know.

You cant judge the moment, you cant tell where its going to lead you.

Youre not going down the same street you go down every day.

Its an unknown direction, and that activates something.

Thats what I felt inRoboCopand inElle.

Because it was all so different from living in Holland.

Although its a gift that you have to learn how to appreciate!

Have you considered the prescience ofRoboCop?

Even more so, perhaps, thanStarship Troopers, you know.

But lately, they have come to the surface its this ultra right-wing direction, isnt it?

EspeciallyStarship Troopers, thats pointing out a fascist utopia, in fact.

The point is that, I dont see it as me prophesising.

But I dont think Ed Neumeier or I believed that we would be coming so close to that now!

But I didnt take it as a reality that would happen in the United States.

Its more that, yes, its a possibility.

There was a book that was written I think he was English, or maybe he was American.

Bertram Gross, who wrote a book in the 80s calledFriendly Fascism.

You recognise whats happening in the United States at this very moment.

So do you know what youre going to make next?

Do you have a project lined up?

But thats all over now.

So you have to work on a couple of projects and hope that one of them catches fire.

I just dont want there to be another ten years before you make another movie!

Yeah, yeah, that was stupid!

[Chuckles] That happens all the time now.

If I had the money, Id give it to you myself!

Paul Verhoeven, thank you very much.

Elleis out in UK cinemas on the 10th March.