Jonas Rivera:Thank you.

Its done really well in the UK.

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Pete Docter:Yeah.

Were really pleased with that.

Would you sayInside Outs the most complex film youve made so far, with the cutting between multiple characters?

PD:It feels like it.

JR:It was difficult for us.

I cant speak for the other filmmakers there, but its very complex.

And everything was all mushed together.

As the story would change, the set would change, you know?

PD:It was the most fragile movie, its true.

One change would have a knock-on effect on the third act or whatever it might be.

It also seemed to me to be the hardest movie to get from concept to final film.

Out of the chute, the idea was really strong and everyone loved it.

Thats true of them all, I guess, but this one just felt a little tougher.

I liked the metaphor of moving house as a metaphor for leaving childhood behind…

PD:Thank you.

[Chuckles]

But was that the point where you thought, Weve cracked it.

PD:We had a bunch of different incarnations of that.

Various versions…

PD:Actually, its crisps, isnt it?

We would talk about our own childhood traumas and difficulties.

And moving seemed to fit that.

JR:It came up again and again.

Its a big thing for a kid.

It isnt like death, but it definitely impacts you emotionally and socially and all of that.

It just seemed right.

And nobodys expecting us to hit a home run right off the bat.

The first time, we know there are gonna be a lot of clunky things.

And its expected that well get together and help make it better.

[Chuckles]

But its a very comfortable and supportive environment.

It felt to me as well, it feels quite experimental with the different textures you have going on.

Theres a sense of the internal world of being almost 2D, like a hand-drawn animation.

Computer graphics are very good at making things look real or physical.

But Pete would say, I want it to feel this way.

Or, I want the character to look, I dont know, effervescent.

So youre talking in abstract terms, not the concrete.

But that was the coolest part of the show, because it released everybody a little bit to explore.

It was a little bit closer to Chuck Jones or something, you know?

Im not saying were Chuck Jones at all, but were after that.

It was challenging with our toolset to get that look.

This isnt name-dropping, even though it sounds like it is.

I was talking to someone at Studio Ghibli, the day before yesterday…

PD:Were you there?

Oh no, no.

This was in London.

For me being an outsider, thats not something Id thought of.

I wondered what the challenge is for you to take something sculptural and make it dynamic.

PD:I always thought of it as being like having a doll house when I was a kid.

Computers are kind of like that.

You put the cameras in there, its very dimensional.

Its very similar to live-action: you could have close-up shots, a master, you could go wide.

Its that part of your brain thats exercised.

But yeah, I come out of 2D animation myself, and that is much more graphic and linear.

I like that, though.

Its kind of cool.

Its certainly quite still and dramatically intense.

Theres also a certain amount of melancholy in parts of it.

PD:That was always intended from the get-go.

Were big fans of their work, specifically Miyazaki and Takahata, those two guys.

JR:Its cool to hear you say that.

We talk about those films a lot.

Miyazaki is certainly one of those.

I was quite proud of [Inside Out] when we were putting it together.

The unbelievable sense of whimsy.

I think its great that animation can deal with these films so delicately.

Themes that perhaps people wouldnt flock to see in a live-action film.

it’s possible for you to deal with these emotions in a metaphorical sense.

It appeals to a certain aspect of everybody, hopefully.

I do think there are things we can get to that are more difficult.

I wonder about this Ive nothing to base this on.

I wonder if it would have come off as, Ugh, it makes my teeth hurt.

Or, saccharine or something.

There are ways to do it.

But theres something about animation thats slightly more abstract, less specific, maybe.

The audience is a participant in creating that in their own mind instead of feeding them everything.

I think animation, in a broad way, gets to that a little bit.

We can have real textures and shadows and everything.

That can also be betraying if its too real.

If it were Walter Matthau…

PD:Yeah, yeah.

No, I agree.

Even as it is, its tough.

But because you have that distance…

PD:Its true.

JR:Or Disney.

Dumbo jumping off the thing.

PD:A real elephant?

PD:Would you accept that it could fly?

[Laughs]

JR:I dont think so.

Or Pinocchio, turning into a donkey.

You could [shoot it in live action], but it would be horrific.

PD:The thing if you shot it in live-action is, he accepts theres a puppet walking around.

Everybody would be so horrified… Im gonna argue both sides at the same time!

Its not necessarily something you’ve got the option to sell in one logline.

Then you have a character like Bing Bong, who you didnt push up front.

You left him as a surprise for the film itself.

PD:That was fun.

JR:Yeah, we were glad that everyone got behind that from marketing.

Hes the arbiter of whether things go or not.

He can see the potential in things.

And hell throw some stuff in, and you go, Yeah!

I didnt even think of that!

So its very collaborative.

JR:Yeah, I think youre right.

With Inside Out, you took that to Cannes.

PD:Well, withToy Story,the benefit was that it had never been done.

There were no rules to apply to.

If anything, with animation it was an unwritten rule that anything animated would be a musical.

Nothing wrong with musicals, but I think we stretched the boundaries of an animated film.

So thats been more and more difficult to do as the films have stockpiled up.

Were now on number 16 withThe Good Dinosaur; [Inside Out]is 15.

Well be talking about something and go, Oh, we already did that with Jesse inToy Story 2.

Its something were definitely conscious of, and we keep trying to approach things in a new way.

And thats why we didToy Story,and why we continue to make films.

Pete Doctor and Jonas Rivera, thank you very much.

Inside Outwill be available on DVD and Blu-ray from the 20th November in the UK.